CFHC Talkback For News Story #73:
Newest Talkback: 08:55 AM 08-28 EDT

Why the Projections Failed
07:05 AM EDT - 25 August 2000

Forecasting is a crap shoot. When things are going like usual, it's fairly easy to predict like something. But, all the forecasting models dropped the ball Debby for the same reasons the models are wrong when forecasting any weather.

o The atmosphere is very complex, and even though the models use high levels of numerical and mathematical know-how, it cannot possibly catch every cause and effect that the atmosphere can do.

o The data that goes into the models could be wrong, or woefully incomplete. This is especially a problem over the oceans. The recon planes like the Gulfstream Jet help this along, but it's still less than optimal.

o Mother Nature is Mother Nature. Things happen. What Debby did was unforseen by everyone until the day it happened. Forecasters are not "Besserweiser" or know it alls. They are human, and just watch and predict and have nearly unlimited pardons for bombed forecasts. The NHC did a stellar job despite what happened. (I bet Debby is one of those they would rather forget happened at all, though)

This is what makes storms interesting to track, when they do something unexpected. There was every reason to believe it would have affected South Florida, but it had other options in mind.

The Atlantic is unusually hostile right now for development most anywhere. The wave in the East Atlantic already has died to this, and Ex-Debby is still having troubles reorganizing. (It's trying though)

The season is not over. We have had 4 named storms so far, and last year we had two by this time. September is the peak month, so it's not even close do being done with.

Thanks for the many people who did visit this site when Debby was considered a threat. Our goal is to give you opinions and allow you to view the data yourself so that you can make your own informed decisions. I hope it worked out.

Comments or Questions? Everyone is invited to use it. Use the comment button by the story Headline.

NRL Monterey Marine Meteorology Division Forecast Track of Debby (Good Forecast Track Graphic)


Crown Weather Services Tropical Update (Includes Map with multiple forecast model tracks)
Snonut's Hurricane Reports

Satellite images at: [N.A. visible] (visible -- Daytime Only) [N.A. infrared] (infrared), and [N.A. water vapor] (water vapor)--Nasa source.

Some Forecast models: (NGM, AVN, MRF, ECMWF, ETA)
DoD weather models (NOGAPS, AVN, MRF)
AVN, ECMWF, GFDL, NOGAPS, UKMET

- [mac]


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Displaying Talkbacks #1 - #6 (of 27 total)

Projections (#1)
Posted by:
Frank Pellegrino Location: Biloxi MS
Posted On 08:18AM 25-Aug-2000 with id (QRNQSNRTXNS*)


I just discovered this web site this week and find it most interesting, informative and useful. Living on the beach in Biloxi MS, I have been through several major storms; Camille, Fredrick, Elena, and Georges. (Actually rode out Elena and Georges at home on the beach, my house is 18.5 feet above sea level on Highway 90!) So as anyone living on the coast, I have a great interest in these weather systems and want to get as much information as possible. Keep up the great work!

today (#2)
Posted by:
Rick Shade Location: Mobile, Al
Posted On 09:10AM 25-Aug-2000 with id (RQVNXUNWWNQXS*)


best website....period. partly because I can put my two cents in. Now..to Debbie...it looks as though when she gets a little more north and west, she can avoid the easterly shear. But the satellite infrared sure has a lot of thunderstorm activity. When the uppers get right, she will bounce back. Anyone know if she will head north a little at all? Or, is she destined to go west into oblivion....the weather people may not be watching her...but I for one, haven't given up...she will be back.....

A WORD ABOUT WRITTEN COMMUNICATON (I.E POSTINGS/EMAIL) (#3)
Posted by:
OrlandoDude Location: O-Town
Posted On 12:58PM 25-Aug-2000 with id (QYRNQRXNQVVNVX*)


Please keep in mind that while we attempt to create conversation by posting to boards, email, etc. conversations/messages in print cannot replace vocal communication. Since we can only interpret a message with "assumed" inflection, messages that may not be intended to sound demeaning or cert, could be can be interpreted as such. We all should try to be aware that our words may be interpreted incorrectly, or that we may be interpreting other people's messages incorrectly. Do not take things personally, or as the cliché goes.. Don't fret the small stuff...


Hmm (#4)
Posted by: Terry
Posted On 03:25PM 25-Aug-2000 with id (RTNRWNRRTNSR*)


I Think the saying goes "Don't sweat the small stuff" but you could have heard it wrong!

Shear, shear and more shear. (#5)
Posted by: Jim Mogle Location: Kissimmee, Fl
Posted On 04:30PM 25-Aug-2000 with id (RPUNRTRNRRXNSQ*)


I don't think I have seen as much shear this late in the season as there is now. Almost all of the tropics appear to be under some level of shear. It will be a pretty quiet period as long as that continues.

Miswording (#6)
Posted by: Jim Mogle Location: Kissimmee, Fl
Posted On 04:34PM 25-Aug-2000 with id (RPUNRTRNRRXNSY*)


I think 'at this point' is more appropriate than 'this late'. Sorry folks, long day.

SW Gulf of Honduras (#7)
Posted by: Bill Location: TLH
Posted On 04:37PM 25-Aug-2000 with id (RPTNQQPNRQTNYT*)


Hi all!

I noticed the last couple of days a swirl just inland of the corner of the Gulf of Honduras (south of Belize). I thought it was an upper/midlevel feature. This morning it looked like it had emerged, and there was some convective development. Now it looks like a small circulation has started just offshore, BUT, it also looks like it is retrograding back to the sw. This is not explicitly related to Debbie I don't think.

This remind me of how 'Kyle' (wasn't that the name of the TS) got started there a few years ago.

This is off the VIS GOES this afternoon. Thoughts?

IHS,

Bill


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